When did the astrologers visit Jesus?

[pauldrinkard]

<<When did the astrologers visit Jesus?>>
In Matthew’s Gospel, we are told that “astrologers from eastern parts” visited Jesus, bringing him gifts. (Matthew 2:1-12; footnote) How many of these astrologers, or “magi,” visited the child Jesus is not disclosed, and there is no firm basis for the traditional notion that there were three; neither are they named in the Biblical account.
The New International Version Study Bible makes this comment on Matthew 2:11: “Contrary to tradition, the Magi did not visit Jesus at the manger on the night of his birth as did the shepherds. They came some months later and visited him as a ‘child’ in his ‘house.’” This is verified by the fact that Herod, when seeking to have the young child killed, ordered the slaughter of all boys two years of age and under throughout Bethlehem and its districts. He targeted that age group by calculating “according to the time that he had carefully ascertained from the astrologers.”—Matthew 2:16.
Had these astrologers visited Jesus on the night of his birth and brought gold and other valuable gifts, it is unlikely that Mary would have offered only two birds 40 days later when she presented Jesus at the temple in Jerusalem. (Luke 2:22-24) This was a provision in the Law for poor people who could not afford a young ram. (Leviticus 12:6-8) However, these valuable gifts may have been timely and useful in financing the stay of Jesus’ family in Egypt.—Matthew 2:13-15.

[Texas Streak]

You are correct in your assumption that they did not visit Him on the night of His birth. As a matter of fact, He was 3 years of age when they saw Him. This has been the subject of many Bible scholars for a long time. Some say He was 2 others say 3. I tend to put more stock in the latter.

But I do have one question for you, pauldrinkard. Why didn't you call them "pagan astrologers" this time like you did in a previous post??

[howdy ya'll]

He is calling them astrologers because they followed the stars like the majority of the people did all through out the Bible, including Abraham and Moses.

Actually there is no historical basis for the legend that they were from the apostate Persian cult, or pegan. It is much more probable that they were devout men who knew of the Saviours birth, including the promise that a new star would arise, and that they came as prophets of any age would have done to worship their King.......

It is very clear that they were in tune with the Lord and were receiving revelation from him because they were warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod. Through out the Bible, only the prophets were visited by the Lord in dreams.

The fact the Christ was a child is elementary and pretty much the norm with the Christain faith.

The fact that there were more than 3 wise men is elementary as well. Three just stands out because of the gifts that were brought. Inspired gifts to assist the escape of the family back to Nazareth.

[pauldrinkard]

<<Some say He was 2 others say 3. I tend to put more stock in the latter.>>

Based on the time the astrologers gave Herod of the "star's" appearance, Herod decreed the execution of all male children 2 years of age and younger. One is free to "put more stock" where one chooses.

The astrologers merely assumed it was a star that they beheld. However, the light they followed led them directly to Herod who desired to kill the young child. Surely, the source of that light would not have been the Creator who caused the birth of the one who would become the Christ. Subsequently, the light led them to Jesus, and then God warned them by means of a dream not to return to Herod.

<<Why didn't you call them "pagan astrologers" this time like you did in a previous post??>>

Astrology was practiced by those who worshipped pagan gods. Babylonians began to predict the future according to the positions of the sun, the moon, and the five most visible planets. Those who worshipped the Sovereign Lord Jehovah avoided astrology. The Law that God gave to Moses specifically warned the Israelites against looking for omens. “There should not be found in you .*.*. anyone who employs divination .*.*. or anyone who looks for omens,” the Law stated. “Everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah.”—Deuteronomy 18:10,*12.

[pauldrinkard]

<<Through out the Bible, only the prophets were visited by the Lord in dreams. >>

No so! Read on...

Dreams from God were received by Jehovah’s servants and by persons not devoted to him. (1Ki 3:5; Jg 7:13,*14) Some furnished warnings that protected his servants, and others gave them guidance. Thus, in a dream God warned Abimelech the king of Gerar not to touch Sarah, with the result that she remained undefiled. (Ge 20) Complying with “divine warning in a dream,” the astrologers who visited Jesus did not return to murderous Herod. (Mt 2:11,*12)

Some dreams from God experienced by persons not worshiping him were also prophetic. In Egypt, while Joseph was imprisoned with Pharaoh’s chief of the cupbearers and chief of the bakers, these men had dreams that God enabled Joseph to explain as meaning that in three days the chief of the cupbearers would be restored to his position, whereas the chief of the bakers would be executed. These events occurred three days later, on Pharaoh’s birthday. In time these dreams served the purpose of bringing Joseph to Pharaoh’s attention as a man having God’s spirit.—Ge*40.

Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar also had two prophetic dreams from God. One was of a metallic image with a head of gold, breast and arms of silver, belly and thighs of copper, legs of iron, and feet of iron and clay. A stone cut out without hands struck and crushed its feet and then pulverized the rest of the image. Daniel identified Nebuchadnezzar as “the head of gold” and explained that a succession of human kingdoms would follow that of Babylon. Ultimately, God himself would set up a Kingdom that would “never be brought to ruin.”—Da 2:29-45.
In another dream from God, Nebuchadnezzar beheld a great tree that was chopped down, its remaining rootstock being restrained with “a banding of iron and of copper” until “seven times” passed over it. In keeping with Daniel’s explanation, boasting Nebuchadnezzar (symbolized by the tree that was cut down) went mad, remaining in that state until seven times, or years, passed. Thereafter he acknowledged God’s supremacy, and his sanity having returned, he was reestablished in his kingship.

[howdy ya'll]

Following stars is so much different than looking for omens. Do you not realize that following stars were the main way of travel in the days of the Bible when long distance was required and not knowing exactly where you were going, and even taught today by so many.

Persia was full of Jews during that time.

It just sounds like you are making something out of nothing. Calling the wise men devil worshipers or prophets certainly, alone, will not get one in or keep one out of Heaven. Calling them inspired men of God searching out their king that was promised sense the days of old and listening and obeying the Spirit of the Lord makes so much more sense to me. As mere mortals we will never realize the fullness of knowledge. From a spiritual perspective, a true Christian will always continue searching for truth or even hidden treasures of knowledge; just as a scientist will constantly search for evidence and conclusions to his experiments. The truth of this discussion is apparently of no relevence to you, but for me it is relevent because it is knowledge.

Sign seeking shows an adulterous person, but recognizing and understanding signs of spiritual significance requires listening and being in tune with the spirit. Such as the miracles worked by the Savior were signs to the believers that he was indeed the Son of God the Father. A pharisee did not understand the true meaning of these miracles. Do you see the difference or do I need to explain a little different.

Like this, 'Please God, give me a sign if I need to get on the boat to save me from the floods.....' this is sign seeking but to recognize and interpret a sign of higher purpose that no other can interpret is to be inspired or even to be considered a prophet of the Lord as in the example of the wisemen who recognized the meaning of the new star. This was clearly a sacred message, indeed "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7

[howdy ya'll]

<<Through out the Bible, only the prophets were visited by the Lord in dreams. >> I worded this wrong......

Through out the Bible, when the Lord SPOKE to men through dreams these men were always servants of the Lord, meaning prophetic in nature.

Apparently, the wisemen were of divine and righteous nature having been lead by the spirit of God as well as their SPIRITUAL INSIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE BIRTH OF THE SAVIOUR.

To have a dream from God does not qualify one to be righteous or to hold the title of a prophet. But to correctly interpret a dream constructed from diety in its entirety, would indicate that the interpreter is a prophet. The same would apply to the infamous star. An astrologer may notice the new star, but a prophet of the Lord would know its meaning and act upon it just as the wisemen did in this account. And in the cases of the people that were not prophets or representatives of the Lord such as the Babylonian king or pharaoh's chief, they sought out these divine men to interpret these dreams because they lacked the gift and power to do so. So, in reality, these men having these God given dreams were unknowingly led by the Spirit of God to seek out the prophets, who knew the revealed secrets of the Lord for the purposes of dream interpretation to show forth the power of God.

[howdy ya'll]

<<Some say He was 2 others say 3. I tend to put more stock in the latter.>>

The astrologers merely assumed it was a star that they beheld. However, the light they followed led them directly to Herod who desired to kill the young child. Surely, the source of that light would not have been the Creator who caused the birth of the one who would become the Christ. Subsequently, the light led them to Jesus, and then God warned them by means of a dream not to return to Herod.

Ask yourself this......if you were coming from a far off land, knowing that a kind was born, would you look in a manger, or humble little house or would you go were a king was to look for the new born king.......

[howdy ya'll]

pauldrinkard.....sense astrologers seem to be the topic here, I thought you might enjoy reading this article that I found while reading the article about the tree in the mans lung.......It was interesting. By no means do I believe in astrology, but I do find this article worth reading.

I tried to send you a PM, but I guess you do not accept PM's.

http://www.mosnews.com/politics/2009/03/06/147/

[howdy ya'll]

pauldrinkard

Why start a thread if you are not wanting to finish pleading your case. This is a very good subject. I heard there was a big fire on the compound, I hope everyone is doing good and able to rebuild.