Where are all the christians

[summer]

I have lived here for seven years now and i have not hardly met one true christian, It seems everyone i have come in contact with drinks gets high or does drugs i don't do none of these things i listen to christian radio and wonder where are these people at? Please people of God let your light shine for us that are desperately looking for love in a dark world. Don't just abide in the four walls of your churches we need ya'll out here.

[honda05]

Hello, Summer and welcome aboard.
I know what you mean about where are they. So goes the world! We are Christians here and notice the same trend. It always reminds me of Last Days Prophecy. Narrow is the way...

It's good to meet you, and may this Lord's Day be a blessed one for you.

[just me]

summer, i know what you mean. it is really strange, here smack in bible belt, a church on every corner in abilene, and hardly a true Christian that really attends. sometimes i feel it is like a fashion show, lets see who puts the most money in the plate show, and lets see who has the biggest gym.

me, i try to live all the commandments to the best i can, like yourself. i try not to judge, but i also cant help notice how when church is over, the restaurants fill up, walmart fills up, and things of that nature. A true Christian goes home and keeps the sabbath holy.

sorry just a pet peeve of mine.......

good luck, this is the best place, a lot of really good people on this board that really seem to want to live according to the scriptures. that is nice.

hope to hear from you more

[sparkys4]

I have lived here for seven years now and i have not hardly met one true christian, It seems everyone i have come in contact with drinks gets high or does drugs....

Where are you looking for Christians?

You said you have judged everyone you have met to be false Christians.

One of the definitions of Christian is to simply be "Christ-like" and a believer and follower of His teachings

If all I have met for 7 years was drunks and drug users, I would change where I was hanging out for sure

There are some really nice, helpful, friendly genuine Christians here

I know when we first visited a church here years back, we had some people from that church come by later that afternoon to thank us for coming and brought us some home baked bread to our door.
They found out our needs and ministered to us through the local church.

Keep looking, they are out there.:)

[honda05]

Awesome! Great testimony, Sparkington! And amen about them being out there.
We wouldn't take a million for our church home. Greatest folks around.

[konstantin4abilene]

I understand what you mean. When I was called toministry years ago, I was a stupid, confused and rebellious soul. Although I have done some growing over the years, I am still a flesh and blood man. I was born, and remain imperfect. I think if you want to understand how to trust and follow God, you must follow him everyday. Very rare is a man who lives a perfect life after he or she is saved. David, who was described as a man after God's own heart, went astray form God's will for a time. His son, Solomon, was known as one of the wisest men who ever lived. Even solomon fell away from what God demanded of him later in life, because he started to follow the practices of others. A wise man once told me, that if you can't back it up in the bible don't do it. Several times in the bible, it talks about how all of the cildren of Israel, with the exception of just a few, or even one or two at times, followed God's will for their life completely. These were the chosen people of God, so if you think people in Abilene are any different, much less better, you are not looking at the reality of things. ;) If you think your boss hilds you to a high standard, try being a minister for a while.

[SLAPSHOT]

There are some really nice, helpful, friendly genuine Christians here

You can be nice, helpful, friendly, and genuine without being a Christian. I just wanted to point that out.

[pills4everything]

I 100% agree Slapshot

[konstantin4abilene]

Of course, there are many good people in the world. Sorry if I seemed to imply otherwise.

[sparkys4]

the title of summers thread ask "where are all the Christians" not "where are all the good people"

I too did not mean to imply anything against non-Christians at all, I was just trying to respond to her original question.

it is true that there are many organizations out there that help people who don't claim to be anything but willing to help the fellow man. Allot of businesses sponsor relief drives for the needy.

[summer]

Wow what church was that? We attended a church here for 6 months husband even attended a mens breakfast and no one has ever invited us to do anything.

[SLAPSHOT]

Wow what church was that? We attended a church here for 6 months husband even attended a mens breakfast and no one has ever invited us to do anything.

In my opinion it's because 99% of folks go to Church because here in Abilene, it's viewed as "the right thing to do". So people dress up for the fashion show and drive their Cadillac Escalades and Hummers to church for some good ole self gratification and socialization. You'll see that the "Christians" in this town are Christians when it's convenient or when someone is watching them. Watch and see how quickly you're judged by these "Christians". I know not all folks are as I describe, but I firmly believe most are.

[honda05]

There are MANY true Christians in our city. A small percentage may be as Slapshot wants you to believe, but they are really a minority, at least in our city, from what I have seen. He accuses Christians as being judgemental, but he himself has placed judgement on a Christian community he really doesn't even know.

What church to you attend, Slapshot? Just curious.

Thanks-

[honda05]

I just now read that you know not all folks are as you describe. Very true. I think the ones you have seen go to the bigger churches, and I have seen that kind too, but again, they are a minority and aren't living the Christian example God would want. I do hear you on that.

[sparkys4]

you know the down side about churches and "Christians" is that all God has to work with down here are a bunch of sinners.

It's funny how you all complain about being judged by the so called "Christians" and now reading over your post, YOU are the ones doing the judging. shame on you:mad:

[SLAPSHOT]

It's funny how you all complain about being judged by the so called "Christians" and now reading over your post, YOU are the ones doing the judging. shame on you:mad:

You're darn right I'm doing the judging, the difference is that I don't walk around quoting bible verses and preaching about not being judgemental. I just call 'em like I see 'em. Shame on you for defending the hypocrites. Let me clarify myself a little: It's not the act of judging someone that peeves me (we're all human,I believe we instinctively judge people all the time), it's the fact that these self proclaimed "Christians" preach about not being judgemental and pretend to be these great Christians, then turn around and lay judgement on you.....the hypocracy is what ticks me off.

Honda: I do not go to church, not even on Easter. My spirituality is my business, not to be shared with anyone and not to be put on display at a church. I'm from Tennessee, Southern Baptist capitol of the world :) and that's how I was raised. I look back on those times and remember many times after church listening to the conversations of the older men after church and hearing racial slurs and such....things that I know now a "Christian" shouldn't be saying. That's what I mean about being hypocrites, most "church-going" people preach one thing and do the opposite. Believe me, I don't just make this crap up, I base these opinions on my experience, things I've seen and heard, therefore I choose not to go to church, and will never go to church again....you don't need to go to church to be close to God, and you don't need to be a preacher to talk to God.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions, if anyone is offended, I don't care.

[sparkys4]

When you stand before God someday, and my beliefs say that you will, I wonder if that reply you just gave will cause Him to scratch his chin and say,....
"OK Slapper, that's as good as an excuse as I've heard, come on in!"

[honda05]

We can't blame Slapper for the way he feels--he had bad examples set for him as a youth, by hipocrites. I'm sure not upset at you, Slapper, not at all, quite the opposite. Those old men were wrong as thunder. That's true about not needing to be in a church to be close to God nor a preacher. He loves us all, even the ol' Slapshot. Enough to let His only Son die for our sins. I'm only a sinner saved by grace and far from perfect. That's it.

All I can say.

[SLAPSHOT]

"OK Slapper, that's as good as an excuse as I've heard, come on in!"

LOL! :D

He loves us all, even the ol' Slapshot.

;)

[konstantin4abilene]

I think the main thing you need to do is stop looking at people as a reflection of the way God is. Like you, I dispise hypocritical actions in others. Just between you and me(and this forum lol) I hate it more when I see it in myself. Unfortunately, I see hypocracy in the mirror daily. Please don't confuse my actions, or the actions of "religious" people with the true will or nature of God. In this game, NOBODY bats 1000. In a strange way I am glad I am not perfect. Look at what the world did to the last guy who was... ;)

[honda05]

That last sentence said it, K! Thank God His precious blood covers a multitude of our sins, because I mess up ROYALLY on a daily basis.

[just me]

my big question is why do people feel that they can pick and choose which commandment to follow just out of convenience and satifaction of doing what they want and not doing what God wants.........like keeping the sabbath day holy........how many Christains fill the resturaunts after church on Sunday...........on vacation and not on spell check computer.....sorry for the misspelled words and too tired to look them up.....traveled halfway across Texas, fixing to travel the other half way home......

[sparkys4]

my big question is why do people feel that they can pick and choose which commandment to follow just out of convenience and satifaction of doing what they want and not doing what God wants.........like keeping the sabbath day holy........how many Christains fill the resturaunts after church on Sunday...........on vacation and not on spell check computer.....sorry for the misspelled words and too tired to look them up.....traveled halfway across Texas, fixing to travel the other half way home......

you have to understand that you're idea oh keeping the "sabbath" holy by not going out to eat, is... well.. your opinion.

you remind me of the Pharisees in the New Testament that accused Jesus of breaking the commandment by healing the man's hand in the Synagogue on the Sabbath
Pick up your Bible and read what Jesus said to them about it.;)

[just me]

8 Remember the asabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/8a) day, to keep it bholy (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/8b). 9 aSix (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/9a) days shalt thou blabour (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/9b), and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy astranger (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/10a) that is within thy gates:


Ex. 35: 2 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2#2)
2 aSix (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2a) days shall bwork (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2b) be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a csabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2c) of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to ddeath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2d).


remember the posting about the people under the bridge begging for money. and you said that giving them money is like aiding in them in buying alcohol and/or drugs, but giving them a burger or something like that would serve a more usefull purpose......same concept on keeping the sabbath day holy. one goes out to eat and supports the person who is working or business on the sabbath day, your money exchange, your purchase.


plus, when Jesus healed the man on the Sabbath, he was doing Gods work. I am not like the Pharisees because I do not think going out to eat and supporting the business is doing God's work, it is a convenience of man.....

I am not casting judgement either, just making an observation. maybe it is not me who needs to study the scriptures.......

[sparkys4]

8 Remember the asabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/8a) day, to keep it bholy (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/8b). 9 aSix (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/9a) days shalt thou blabour (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/9b), and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy astranger (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20/ex/20/10a) that is within thy gates:


Ex. 35: 2 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2#2)
2 aSix (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2a) days shall bwork (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2b) be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a csabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2c) of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to ddeath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/35/2d).


remember the posting about the people under the bridge begging for money. and you said that giving them money is like aiding in them in buying alcohol and/or drugs, but giving them a burger or something like that would serve a more usefull purpose......same concept on keeping the sabbath day holy. one goes out to eat and supports the person who is working or business on the sabbath day, your money exchange, your purchase.


plus, when Jesus healed the man on the Sabbath, he was doing Gods work. I am not like the Pharisees because I do not think going out to eat and supporting the business is doing God's work, it is a convenience of man.....

I am not casting judgement either, just making an observation. maybe it is not me who needs to study the scriptures.......

what day is the sabbath referring to in that time in history? It certainly isn't Sunday now is it?

In the New Testament the sabbath is not required in fact Paul said

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16–17).

Unless you want to discuss that Constantine who lived 300 years after Christ had authority to move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.


I refer to Sunday as "the Lord's Day"

Do you rest on Saturday?
Are you keeping only Old Testament Jewish Law?
If so, your are more Jew than Christian.

[earl mackey]

Dear summer,
I was against the churchs for the wealthy and un-righteous better than thou's .
in 1981 a drunk came into my lane and ran over me head-on and i died. i went thru this darkness so fast that it was confusing my mind then i saw this dot of light i locked onto it and did not stop looking at it . it got bigger as i got closer to it . the light became bigger and bigger as i got closer this joy overcame me that is unexplainable to people of the physical realm . A man whom i call JESUS was in the light ,but he was the light , he spoke without speaking and i was not in this body yet i was not freaked about me their in the light (what i was) i was just going oh my GOD it's real it's true and i am here .Then the man of the light tells me "I know it hurts and i know its bad,I'm sorry you have not done what you said you would do you have to go back . " I realized what he said and i said no by GOD i am here and i am staying , he told me " you do get to come here but not yet not now ,I'm sorry . Then i heard someone say we got him and as i started looking around as much as i could with my head clamped to the operating table , i heard someone say my GOD he's awake .If you read the bible it says a day to GOD is a 1000 years to man if you divide 24 hours into 1000 you come up with 41.67 years to man, minutes in GOD time hell is being out of the light of GOD keep seeking the light and praise and prayer and in a short time the light will shine on and thru you , never leave the light for it is the true path to GOD and question all and demand in the name of the one true GOD the truth and knowledge of all things , just be prepared .You might find a interesting story i found on the internet called Adam and Lilith the first wife of adam , but be prepared it gets heavy and deep quickly and all but one preacher i have spoke with about it even knew of the story!
with love ,praise and glory to GOD always! were two gather in my name there ye have a church and there i will be in spirit ! amen
earl

[sparky-4]

I thought that was Frasier's wife off of Cheers:D

[just me]

ok, sparky,

in the King James Version of the Bible this is what it says:

16 Let no man therefore ajudge (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16a) you in bmeat (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16b), or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the csabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16c) days:
17 Which are a ashadow (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/17a) of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


notice that the word 'respect' was changed to 'regarding' in your version. That changes the meaning of what is being said. Sure 'respect' and regarding' are similar, but it gives the reader a different understanding of the meaning. Not to mention the other words that have been changed out of the KJV into other versions of the Bible.

I like to stay with the KJV, personally.

The Sabbath is the Sabbath, whether it is on Sunday, or on Saturday, or what ever day one chooses to have the Sabbath. And that is why this scripture states that we should not judge ones 'holyday' or 'new moon', or 'sabbath'.

I am sorry, but I cannot find anywhere that Paul says that there is no more Sabbath. The New Testament is full of keeping the Sabbath holy. After all, Luke 23:56 said 'and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.' The whole chapter is great, this is just the very last line....

This is all my spiritual opinion, and I believe that all men have the God given right to worship how and what they may, and on the day of judgment, the righteous and the doctrines by which they lived by will be justified, and those that have been deceived by every whirlwind of doctrine according to the philosophies of man will be revealed as such. Certainly I believe in the admonition of Paul.....if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, I seek after these things......Keeping the Sabbath holy is one of those things I seek that I feel would be praiseworthy in the eyes of the Lord. Of course, keeping the sabbath day holy draws me closer to the Lord and this is a good thing. Unfortunately there are those that feel they must be strictly guided by written word, however I feel that we must too be guided by the spirit when reading the written word which prompts us to do those things which are pleasing to the Savior.

So, no matter what day a person recognizes the Sabbath to be, I believe we should be in respect of their observance and judge them not (as Paul stated in the above verse) if their Sabbath is recognized on a different day from mine which is the first day of the week in which Paul teaches us.

and to answer your question, my Sabbath is on Sunday along with millions of Christians. and yes, I try to follow all 10 commandments, not 9 or 8 or 7.... as you suggest. however, the Bible is full of laws and/or commandments that I seek after. The Jews believe there are over 600 commandments, which, sure, I can agree with them on that. Plus, Jesus came not do away with the laws, but to fulfill the laws. And I would think you would agree with that.

I will be anxious to your response, as I love the Bible and love discussing different thoughts. Most importantly, these discussions should be praiseworthy, and if they bring you strife or hatred toward my opinion, then there should be no more.

[sparky-4]

ok, sparky,

in the King James Version of the Bible this is what it says:

16 Let no man therefore ajudge (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16a) you in bmeat (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16b), or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the csabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16c) days:
17 Which are a ashadow (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/17a) of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


notice that the word 'respect' was changed to 'regarding' in your version. That changes the meaning of what is being said. Sure 'respect' and regarding' are similar, but it gives the reader a different understanding of the meaning. Not to mention the other words that have been changed out of the KJV into other versions of the Bible.

I like to stay with the KJV, personally.

The Sabbath is the Sabbath, whether it is on Sunday, or on Saturday, or what ever day one chooses to have the Sabbath. And that is why this scripture states that we should not judge ones 'holyday' or 'new moon', or 'sabbath'.

I am sorry, but I cannot find anywhere that Paul says that there is no more Sabbath. The New Testament is full of keeping the Sabbath holy. After all, Luke 23:56 said 'and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.' The whole chapter is great, this is just the very last line....

This is all my spiritual opinion, and I believe that all men have the God given right to worship how and what they may, and on the day of judgment, the righteous and the doctrines by which they lived by will be justified, and those that have been deceived by every whirlwind of doctrine according to the philosophies of man will be revealed as such. Certainly I believe in the admonition of Paul.....if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, I seek after these things......Keeping the Sabbath holy is one of those things I seek that I feel would be praiseworthy in the eyes of the Lord. Of course, keeping the sabbath day holy draws me closer to the Lord and this is a good thing. Unfortunately there are those that feel they must be strictly guided by written word, however I feel that we must too be guided by the spirit when reading the written word which prompts us to do those things which are pleasing to the Savior.

So, no matter what day a person recognizes the Sabbath to be, I believe we should be in respect of their observance and judge them not (as Paul stated in the above verse) if their Sabbath is recognized on a different day from mine which is the first day of the week in which Paul teaches us.

and to answer your question, my Sabbath is on Sunday along with millions of Christians. and yes, I try to follow all 10 commandments, not 9 or 8 or 7.... as you suggest. however, the Bible is full of laws and/or commandments that I seek after. The Jews believe there are over 600 commandments, which, sure, I can agree with them on that. Plus, Jesus came not do away with the laws, but to fulfill the laws. And I would think you would agree with that.

I will be anxious to your response, as I love the Bible and love discussing different thoughts. Most importantly, these discussions should be praiseworthy, and if they bring you strife or hatred toward my opinion, then there should be no more.

we can't have a discussion about the sabbath until we at least agree what it is

Sabbath refers to the old testament Jewish day of worship which was Saturday, the 7th day of the week.

After Christ came many of the early Christians were Jewish and still for some time met on Saturday.

After Christ died and arose, which was on the first day of the week, Sunday many began to meet in that day. Sunday is not the Sabbath.
If you want to call it the Lord's day, ok.
But when you keep referring to Sunday as the Sabbath, we will never get past this point.

As for Sunday, the Lords day if should be a day to worship, spend with family and unless of some emergency should be a day of rest

in the ENTIRE NEW TESTMENT here are only 2 references to the Sabbath (Col.2:16; Heb.4:4)

The Apostle Paul says that the day is not a required day to be kept by Christians.
There is no command after the death and resurrection of Jesus for the Church to keep the Sabbath as an obligation to Christ.
Paul did go to the Synagogues on the Jewish Sabbath to teach and preach to the Jews but it was more out of custom and not obligation.

If your argument is that to go out and eat causes someone else to have to work on Sunday and therefore we shouldn't go out and eat then we should also cut off all electricity on Sunday because someone, somewhere is working in a power plant so we can use electricity on Sunday

You can take your argument to alot of places that bear no reason.
I can respect you for not doing it, but follow what Paul says and don't judge others for not keeping your custom on the matter.

[just me]

just me is very ill and will be giving up the computer for a time.

i just wanted to say that it is pretty obvious that when i say 'sabbath', i am referring to the 'Lords Day'. i am in complete agreement with you and when the Christian day is to honor the Lord. you, being Christian as well, is probably very aware that thousands of Christians of all different faiths refer to the 'Lords Day' as the sabbath, of course, not the Jews Holy day, that would lean them more to being Jewish, but the Christian holy day.

so, with that said, we are speaking of the same day. the same 1st day of the week day, the day that is set aside in the Bible (new testament) to honor the Lord. I believe that if it is a day that is set aside to honor the Lord in the Bible, then it is a day that we should honor.

i do not agree with this your statement that says Paul said that the day is not a required day to be kept by Christians. After all, he kept it.

And, like i said before, i am not casting a judgment, just making an observation. you responded, so i responded to you as well.

[SLAPSHOT 1]

we can't have a discussion about the sabbath until we at least agree what it is

Especially when the subject of this thread has nothing to do with what day the Sabbath is. I guess I'm not the only one that goes off topic! ;) :D

[just me]

yup, it is easy to take one subject thru to the next. easy to do.

[just me]

and that is what makes forum boards so fun:D

[sparky-4]

There are groups who call themselves Christians who still follow the Old Testament Sabbath and rest on Saturday.
Not knowing just me's faith, I wanted to make sure we weren't talking about two different days.

We just seem to disagree on what is and isn't acceptable to do on Sunday's as a Christian

I totally respect your views on the matter;)

[just me]

Well, i am glad i have cleared the confusion on our understanding of the Lords Day (sabbath). i guess i was not being clear enough. it is not that i do not respect (which i do, because i believe everything one does is between you and God, and not me) your idea of Sunday, i just simply do not understand the reasoning behind it. that is why i made the statement. i just have the desire to understand people beliefs and feelings, both religious and political.

[just me]

after all, i dont see why any Christian would NOT want to honor the Lords Day to the fullest in every aspect of the NT.

[sparky-4]

after all, i dont see why any Christian would NOT want to honor the Lords Day to the fullest in every aspect of the NT.

you just couldn't leave it alone... could you?:(

[sparky-4]

from gotquestions.org




Question: "What day is the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday? Do Christians have to observe the Sabbath day?"

Answer: It is often claimed that "God instituted the Sabbath in Eden" because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: "And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine'" (Exodus 19:3–5).

“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed” (Exodus 31:16–17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the ten commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

Notice the word therefore. God's intent for giving the Sabbath to Israel was not that they would remember creation, but that they would remember their Egyptian slavery and the Lord's deliverance. Note the requirements for Sabbath-keeping: A person placed under that Sabbath law could not leave his home on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), he could not build a fire (Exodus 35:3), and he could not cause anyone else to work (Deuteronomy 5:14). A person breaking the Sabbath law was to be put to death (Exodus 31:15; Numbers 15:32–35).

An examination of New Testament passages shows us four important points: 1) Whenever Christ appears in His resurrected form and the day is mentioned, it is always the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1, 9, 10; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1, 13, 15; John 20:19, 26). 2) The only time the Sabbath is mentioned from Acts through Revelation it is for evangelistic purposes to the Jews and the setting is usually in a synagogue (Acts chapters 13–18). Paul wrote, "to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews" (1 Corinthians 9:20). Paul did not go to the synagogue to fellowship with and edify the saints, but to convict and save the lost. 3) Once Paul states "from now on I will go to the Gentiles" (Acts 18:6), the Sabbath is never again mentioned. And 4) instead of suggesting adherence to the Sabbath day, the remainder of the New Testament implies the opposite (including the one exception to point 3 above, found in Colossians 2:16).

Looking more closely at point 4 above will reveal that there is no obligation for the New Testament believer to keep the Sabbath, and will also show that the idea of a Sunday "Christian Sabbath" is also unscriptural. As discussed above, there is one time the Sabbath is mentioned after Paul began to focus on the Gentiles, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16–17). The Jewish Sabbath was abolished at the cross where Christ "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us" (Colossians 2:14).

This idea is repeated more than once in the New Testament: "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it" (Romans 14:5–6a). "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years" (Galatians 4:9–10).

But some claim that a mandate by Constantine in A.D. 321 "changed" the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. On what day did the early church meet for worship? Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by believers for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that "on the first day of the week the disciples came together to break bread." In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers "on the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper." Since Paul designates this offering as "service" in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly. Historically Sunday, not Saturday, was the normal meeting day for Christians in the church, and its practice dates back to the first century.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

[sparky-4]

Not all churches answer this question the same way. Some groups, most notably the Seventh-day Adventists, still worship on the seventh day. They argue that the sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), and is therefore part of God's permanent will for His people. They often claim that the shift to Sunday was part of a great apostasy that allowed pagan ideas to infiltrate the church during the early centuries (see Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 58-59).

Other Christian groups say that Sunday is the Christian version of the sabbath. They suggest that the main point of God's command to observe the sabbath was not the seventh day, but the idea of one day out of the seven. Jesus claimed that he was "lord even of the sabbath" (Mark 2:28), and therefore had the authority to change it to a different day. This position argues that Jesus changed the day to Sunday as a way of extending its blessing from the Jews to the whole world.

Still others Christians would say that we no longer observe the Jewish sabbath, but worship instead on Sunday, a distinctively Christian holy day. They argue that the early church very soon began meeting on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus, which took place on the first day of the week.

At the very beginning, the church in Jerusalem met every day in the temple and in private homes (Acts 2:46). Since the first believers were all Jewish, it seems safe to assume that they continued to participate in Jewish synagogue and temple worship for some time.

However, the New Testament makes it clear that the observance of a particular day was not imposed as a binding obligation. Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that there was some freedom in the matter of special days. Colossians 2:16-17 commanded the church not to allow anyone to act as their judge in regard to sabbath days. And Galatians 4:9-10 warns against going back under the Law by insisting on the legal requirement of special days.

The records that remain in the New Testament show that the first day of the week soon became a day of worship. When Paul wanted to collect an offering from the church at Corinth, he asked them to gather the money on the "first day of the week" (1 Cor. 16:2). And when he wanted to meet with the believers at Troas, the gathering took place "on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

In Revelation 1:10, the apostle John described himself as being "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." Most writers have thought he was referring to Sunday, so that our use of "the Lord's Day" as a term for Sunday comes from this verse.

There is no Scripture passage that specifically teaches that the sabbath has been transferred from one day to another. It seems most likely that the shift from Saturday to Sunday was gradual, and took place along with the change from a mostly Jewish church to a mostly Gentile one. The early church fathers generally viewed sabbath as a Jewish observance, and the Lord's Day as the proper Christian observance.

For example, Ignatius wrote in the early 100's A.D., describing Christians with a Jewish background as those who “have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death” (Magnesians 9 ) [Editor's note: Magnesians is a letter written to the church at Magnesia by Ignatius, a church father, also called Theophorus.]

A person's decision concerning sabbath observance probably hinges on the question of how we view the entire Old Testament. If all of it is still binding on us, then so is the sabbath. If there are parts that are no longer binding because they were directed specifically to the Jewish nation, or because they were for ritual purposes, then the sabbath is open for discussion.

No matter what position a person takes, it is important to recognize that God has a claim to all of my time. When I give Him one day of the week, it reminds me that He owns all seven!

[sparky-4]

Now please show me specifically from scripture in the New Testament where it backs up what you are saying.

BTW, I was ready to agree to disagree and leave it alone until you had to post your little parting shot;)

[sparky-4]

I think the most important thing about worship is how sincere it is, than when or where.

Amen, Ron....Amen

[just me]

I think the most important thing about worship is how sincere it is, than when or where.




that is just my point, thank you.

[just me]

i guess you did not see that i refered to the Lords Day, not the sabbath to avoid confusion on what day i was refering, what are you trying to point out? it is some really good information, but we are still talking about the 1st day of the week, the Lords Day, and what thousands of Christians from all different faiths call the sabbath, but it is still the Lords Day, the 1st day of the week. the same day you are talking about.

[howdy ya'll]

WOW, what a conversation.......anybody notice that? I have to look to see how many hits this is getting. Why would anyone want to agrue over honoring the Lord on the Lord's Day?

[sparky-4]

WOW, what a conversation.......anybody notice that? I have to look to see how many hits this is getting. Why would anyone want to agrue over honoring the Lord on the Lord's Day?

because I was informed that real Christians shouldn't go out to eat on Sunday, thats why:D

[howdy ya'll]

WOW, the hottest subject out there!!!! Cool!!!! Between 2 commenter's on top of that! This is really good!

[sparky-4]

Traditional Christians worship and attend services on Sunday, the first day of the week, also referred to as the Lord's Day
To call Sunday the Sabbath is really an error, because they are different days

The old testament commandment regarding keeping the Sabbath (Saturday) was given by God to the Jew.

The New Testament Christian tradition is to worship the Lord and attend services on Sunday.
One Christian should not judge another Christian for going to a restaurant to eat on Sunday after church. There is simply no New Testament scripture to back it up.

It is my conviction to worship, attend services, fellowship with other Christians and generally rest and spend time with my family.
But if one of my widow neighbors has a water leak and calls me over on Sunday afternoon for help, I'm going to help her.

Doing good deeds on Sunday to help or minister to others is in my opinion being Christ-like.

it's a shame the communication level is so poor on this site sometimes otherwise these threads wouldn't take so long to discuss

and by the way, I didn't start this topic or ask the original judgmental question to begin with

[howdy ya'll]

Believe me when I say I am not in no way supporting or defending one person or the other in this matter. But it sounds like 'just me' and 'sparky-4' have the same conviction when it comes to Sunday. 'Just me' even stated that Jesus healing the sick was pleasing to the Lord. I am confused at what the argument is. Just because 'just me' refers to the Lord's Day as the sabbath? Who really cares, to them, and many other Christians, like he said, do. I know a lot of my friends who call the Lord's Day the sabbath. It just holds no baring on my feeling for the day. It is the Lord's Day, and if one wants to mow their yard or go out to eat after church, who cares, like 'just me' said, it is between them and God. I have to give it to 'just me' in having the desire to do what he feels is right on Sunday. I also must have to agree with what they said about not he is not casting a judgment, just making an observation, however, their very first comment about this whole thing did sound very judgmental.

But, heck, I am staying out of this one.......lol:rolleyes:

[sparky-4]

Believe me when I say I am not in no way supporting or defending one person or the other in this matter. But it sounds like 'just me' and 'sparky-4' have the same conviction when it comes to Sunday. 'Just me' even stated that Jesus healing the sick was pleasing to the Lord. I am confused at what the argument is. Just because 'just me' refers to the Lord's Day as the sabbath? Who really cares, to them, and many other Christians, like he said, do. I know a lot of my friends who call the Lord's Day the sabbath. It just holds no baring on my feeling for the day. It is the Lord's Day, and if one wants to mow their yard or go out to eat after church, who cares, like 'just me' said, it is between them and God. I have to give it to 'just me' in having the desire to do what he feels is right on Sunday. I also must have to agree with what they said about not he is not casting a judgment, just making an observation, however, their very first comment about this whole thing did sound very judgmental.

But, heck, I am staying out of this one.......lol:rolleyes:

No way!!:D

You can't make a comment like that and claim you're staying out of it:D

[howdy ya'll]

oh, heck ya! this is between you and 'just me' for someone else to come along and put in their two cents........this one is getting so many hits it is great. I said my thoughts, and that is it, well unless something big comes up.

[just me]

Hello again Sparky! I went to gotquestion.org and this was my question and this was their response.......

Question 92402: Should Christians observe the Lord`s Day?

Answered By: Shane

Answer: Please clarify, by the "Lord's day" do you mean the Sabbath day or Sunday?



......so i responded to them with this........

i mean Sunday. The first day of the week as stated in the New Testament to be set aside to honor the Lord. Should Christians observe the Lord's Day, and what should and shouldn't we do on that day.



......the only reason i am continuing is because it obviously is a very confusing subject and i am one to find an answer to the confusion for my satisfaction, not to get you in another uproar.lol i hope you do not mind, and i think this new guy wont mind either.

[just me]

you are so right in this fact Konstantin, but i hope you or anyone else is reading contintion in my comments. i have discovered that there is a lot of controversy in the word sabbath, and it is helping by hearing what others, mainly sparky, hear what is sad in the matter. i have greatly enjoyed his and your comments on this matter and am learning a lot from it. i think that is taken in as building one up. if someone is getting upset or trouble over the matter, it is not my intention. sure, my first comment was hasty, but only because it is hard for me to understand things that i take very serious and that is why i ask, only to have an understanding. i tried to be very nice in my last post by showing that i took sparky's site to get information from the same place he did. it is a very nice and prompt place. i am very glad he showed it to us all. even gotquestion was confused at my question between the Lords Day and the sabbath. i thought that was kind of funny. any way, i hope they answer soon, i have only a couple of more days before the computer is gone for a while, i am sure sparky will be glad.lol:o

[sparky-4]

Hey guys.. I don't mind continuing the talk at all. ;)

I am certainly no expert here, I just wanted folks to understand the differences between the Sabbath (Jewish, Old Testament meaning) and that of Sunday, or the Lord's day, as I understand it.

In the New Testament the references to the Sabbath were referring to the Jewish tradition, that which was given in the commandments.
Remember that at the very beginning of Christianity most early Christians were Jews, so there was alot of confusion early on with them and the Apostle Paul wrote many many words of the New Testament explaining to the early churches that the old covenant had been replaced by Christ's Death and Resurrection.
Many Jews were reluctant to do away with Jewish traditions at first and some never did.

The word Sabbath in the Bible always refers to the Jewish day of Saturday the last day of the week. Many bible scholars think God established this to show an example of how He rested on the last day of Creation.

Christ arose on the first day of the week, a Sunday, and later on, somewhere about the time of Constantine, around 300 years, I think after Christ, some churches started meeting on Sunday. Sunday is widely called the Lord's Day.
When people call Sunday the "Sabbath" it is not really the correct term.
I'm not trying to sound like I'm any better than anyone on here, but from what I have read and understand, I think this position is the right one.

When I first started to read what "just me" was posting about the Sabbath, I thought that they might be practicing Old Testament Jewish tradition so I wanted to clarify the differences between the two terms before we could begin to understand each other.
Some groups feel that Sunday is the "New Testament Sabbath" and if anybody feels that way and wants to keep the commandments for Sunday, I totally respect that view and they are doing it to honor God, that is great!

Many Christians view Sunday as a special day of Worship, Rest and fellowship and that is awesome, I couldn't agree more. However I don't see anything in the New Testament regarding strict rules for avoiding work like preparing food for Sundays.
If I need to help a friend fix his car on Sunday so he can go to work on Monday, I'll help him.

The best thing I can tell anybody is get your Bible, a good translation, like the KJV, and a good concordance, like a Strongs, and study the topic for yourself and pray to God for understanding.:)

[just me]

absolutely on your very last statement, with anything we have questions about. i am a very big believer in praying before studying, and i also agree with you on the KJV and i love Strongs......see we do agree on some things!:D


i do want to thank you for showing me gotquestion.org. it is a really cool place.

[earl mackey]

ok, sparky,

in the King James Version of the Bible this is what it says:

16 Let no man therefore ajudge (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16a) you in bmeat (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16b), or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the csabbath (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/16c) days:
17 Which are a ashadow (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/col/2/17a) of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


notice that the word 'respect' was changed to 'regarding' in your version. That changes the meaning of what is being said. Sure 'respect' and regarding' are similar, but it gives the reader a different understanding of the meaning. Not to mention the other words that have been changed out of the KJV into other versions of the Bible.

I like to stay with the KJV, personally.

The Sabbath is the Sabbath, whether it is on Sunday, or on Saturday, or what ever day one chooses to have the Sabbath. And that is why this scripture states that we should not judge ones 'holyday' or 'new moon', or 'sabbath'.

I am sorry, but I cannot find anywhere that Paul says that there is no more Sabbath. The New Testament is full of keeping the Sabbath holy. After all, Luke 23:56 said 'and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.' The whole chapter is great, this is just the very last line....

This is all my spiritual opinion, and I believe that all men have the God given right to worship how and what they may, and on the day of judgment, the righteous and the doctrines by which they lived by will be justified, and those that have been deceived by every whirlwind of doctrine according to the philosophies of man will be revealed as such. Certainly I believe in the admonition of Paul.....if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, I seek after these things......Keeping the Sabbath holy is one of those things I seek that I feel would be praiseworthy in the eyes of the Lord. Of course, keeping the sabbath day holy draws me closer to the Lord and this is a good thing. Unfortunately there are those that feel they must be strictly guided by written word, however I feel that we must too be guided by the spirit when reading the written word which prompts us to do those things which are pleasing to the Savior.

So, no matter what day a person recognizes the Sabbath to be, I believe we should be in respect of their observance and judge them not (as Paul stated in the above verse) if their Sabbath is recognized on a different day from mine which is the first day of the week in which Paul teaches us.

and to answer your question, my Sabbath is on Sunday along with millions of Christians. and yes, I try to follow all 10 commandments, not 9 or 8 or 7.... as you suggest. however, the Bible is full of laws and/or commandments that I seek after. The Jews believe there are over 600 commandments, which, sure, I can agree with them on that. Plus, Jesus came not do away with the laws, but to fulfill the laws. And I would think you would agree with that.

I will be anxious to your response, as I love the Bible and love discussing different thoughts. Most importantly, these discussions should be praiseworthy, and if they bring you strife or hatred toward my opinion, then there should be no more.

Jesus also said never trust the leavened bread of the pharrisees or saduccess
yet the Bible is full of Saul the pharrissee and you believe his mis-truths and outright lies, over the warning of Jesus the christ of nazareth !

[howdy ya'll]

Jesus also said never trust the leavened bread of the pharrisees or saduccess
yet the Bible is full of Saul the pharrissee and you believe his mis-truths and outright lies, over the warning of Jesus the christ of nazareth !



“And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do” (Acts 9:6). Saul was blind when he arose and had to be taken to Damascus, where his sight was restored to him and he was baptized. He immediately began to preach “Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God” (Acts 9:20). Saul, who later became known as Paul, experienced a change that was total, absolute, complete, and unwavering until his death.

I think that people can change their hearts and preach the Gospel. Some on the extreme, I dont like extreme, but I have a friend who is a little extreme on some issues. They may have to come up and stay with me a while.

[AHS1960]

Like someone said earlier, I am certainly no expert. My own belief system is that every day is the Lord's day and I will celebrate Him daily. I understand that the Jewish faith regards the Sabbath but I hold to my belief that the Lord's day is every day.

That being said, I think there are other religions that have merit, Buddhism being one of the major ones. I am not Buddhist but do believe in the few teachings of Buddah that I am familiar with, primarily peace through inner strength. There is another member of this forum who has much greater information on this faith than I. I just try to be open to many faiths. Just my 2c.

[bigfatfurrytexan]

I understand that the Jewish faith regards the Sabbath but I hold to my belief that the Lord's day is every day.

Couldn't have said it better, myself. :)

It is a way of life, a lifestyle. Not just done once a week, but with every breath. Because with every breath, you breath in our Creator.

[AHS1960]

Couldn't have said it better, myself. :)

It is a way of life, a lifestyle. Not just done once a week, but with every breath. Because with every breath, you breath in our Creator.

GBY my friend

[howdy ya'll]

Giving respect to the season posters, I am not, maybe one day I will learn some things.....but what is 'GBY'?

There are some things I can figure out, but this one I am unable.

[bigfatfurrytexan]

Giving respect to the season posters, I am not, maybe one day I will learn some things.....but what is 'GBY'?

There are some things I can figure out, but this one I am unable.

"God Bless You".

if you type an acronym into Google, it will usually let you know what it is via a link to some page that lists acronyms.

[howdy ya'll]

Well, duh!!! I feel silly now! Thanks. GBY

[Dudette]

I am a Christian and I am here. Hello to everyone!

[howdy ya'll]

And welcome to this post, I hope you find it interesting. It is one of the better ones.

Very interesting to see different views, that is what I like.

[Dudette]

Me too! My son says I am a closet Budahist :)

[howdy ya'll]

hahahaha, I can relate to that one!

[bigfatfurrytexan]

she is, whether she will admit it or not. :)

Have you ever heard that song "Bubbly Toes"? There is a line in there that says something like, "When you move like a jellyfish, rhythm means nothing, you go with the flow you don't stop". Dudette moves like a jellyfish. :) Strange metaphor, but she just goes with the flow. Doesn't let things ruffle her feathers.

She understands the great truth better than me: We cause our own suffering by wanting. If that isn't Buddhist, what is?

[dngnb8]

The Bible teaches Christians to not to put stumbling blocks in front of non-believers.

The OP appears to be non-Christian (NC). Many NC's expect perfection from us. They judge us by the Word we read, and attempt to live by. What they do not understand is the only human who lived a Bible life was Jesus. He did so, so we had a method of payment for our sins.

My first statement refers to us knowingly doing things that give NCs a reason not to let Christ into their hearts. Hypocrisy, lies etc.

Thus, we must do the best to be mindful of what we do, where NCs are concerned, because they have the Word, and will use it to harden their hearts.

[maverick]

she is, whether she will admit it or not. :)

Have you ever heard that song "Bubbly Toes"? There is a line in there that says something like, "When you move like a jellyfish, rhythm means nothing, you go with the flow you don't stop". Dudette moves like a jellyfish. :) Strange metaphor, but she just goes with the flow. Doesn't let things ruffle her feathers.

She understands the great truth better than me: We cause our own suffering by wanting. If that isn't Buddhist, what is?

sounds like my mother furry1 .... what great ladies! still i knew when to not push my luck! <grin>

[Dudette]

The Bible teaches Christians to not to put stumbling blocks in front of non-believers.

The OP appears to be non-Christian (NC). Many NC's expect perfection from us. They judge us by the Word we read, and attempt to live by. What they do not understand is the only human who lived a Bible life was Jesus. He did so, so we had a method of payment for our sins.

My first statement refers to us knowingly doing things that give NCs a reason not to let Christ into their hearts. Hypocrisy, lies etc.

Thus, we must do the best to be mindful of what we do, where NCs are concerned, because they have the Word, and will use it to harden their hearts.

Thanks for posting this DNGNB8, it explains a lot.

[dngnb8]

Thanks for posting this DNGNB8, it explains a lot.

I have a moment of lucidity here or there. Now ... where are my marbles....

[bigfatfurrytexan]

I have a moment of lucidity here or there. Now ... where are my marbles....

they were given to The Eurasion as part of the "wealth sharing" plan of Obama.

[800trunkerman]

they were given to The Eurasion as part of the "wealth sharing" plan of Obama.

:D Good'n, BigFat&Hairy!

[dngnb8]

they were given to The Eurasion as part of the "wealth sharing" plan of Obama.

experimental & pursuant to the fifth amendment prohibiting government from using private property without just compensation - such as dngnb8's solutions to government problems



I have no idea what you are talking about

[hockeymonkey]

The Bible teaches Christians to not to put stumbling blocks in front of non-believers.

The OP appears to be non-Christian (NC). Many NC's expect perfection from us. They judge us by the Word we read, and attempt to live by. What they do not understand is the only human who lived a Bible life was Jesus. He did so, so we had a method of payment for our sins.

My first statement refers to us knowingly doing things that give NCs a reason not to let Christ into their hearts. Hypocrisy, lies etc.

Thus, we must do the best to be mindful of what we do, where NCs are concerned, because they have the Word, and will use it to harden their hearts.


Aaaah, (single tear runs down cheek)...

they were given to The Eurasion as part of the "wealth sharing" plan of Obama.

LMAO

experimental & pursuant to the fifth amendment prohibiting government from using private property without just compensation - such as dngnb8's solutions to government problems



I have no idea what you are talking about

Dang, juice out the nose.. Must quit drinking when I read forum..

[bigfatfurrytexan]

Aaaah, (single tear runs down cheek)...



LMAO



Dang, juice out the nose.. Must quit drinking when I read forum..

you must drink a lot. Eury surely has an experimental to help you with that.

[dngnb8]

Aaaah, (single tear runs down cheek)...

Does this mean you agree, or my interpretation is so off, you are crying....

[bigfatfurrytexan]

Does this mean you agree, or my interpretation is so off, you are crying....

If it matters, i "agree".

What you are saying is true, whether they be Christian or not. In business we called it "setting someone up for failure". It is a big no-no. In my faith, it brings negative karma.

[maverick]

me and God are okay with each other ... if you and God are okay with each other .... good for you!